Why Your Business Feels Stuck—and How Smart Operators Unlock Growth
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Why Your Business Feels Stuck—and How Smart Operators Unlock Growth
Most entrepreneurs start a business chasing freedom—but end up building a job. They hustle, grind, scale… and then find themselves trapped, exhausted, and buried in operations. In this episode, Jason sits down with Jhana Li—COO turned operations advisor—to talk about how founders can finally break free from the weeds.
They dive deep into the mindset shifts, team structures, and systems that turn chaotic businesses into smooth-scaling machines. Whether you want to exit one day or just stop working 60-hour weeks, this conversation is a blueprint.
The Problem with Founders Doing Everything
Most founders start their businesses out of passion, grit, and a relentless drive to make it work. But what happens when the very traits that helped you build the thing start to become the thing that’s holding you back?
You start plugging holes yourself. You’re answering every Slack message, putting out every client fire, and you convince yourself it’s just “part of the game.” But if you’re still wearing every hat in your business years in, you’re not building freedom—you’re just building a fancy job with better branding.
How Jhana Accidentally Became a COO
Jhana’s story isn’t a traditional one. She went from living in a van to stepping into a partner’s business and realizing she saw totally different problems than he did. While he was focused on marketing and sales, she was spotting $50K in merchant fees being wasted and hundreds of hours lost to pointless meetings.
Without even knowing the term "operations," she started plugging the leaks. That moment was the unlock—realizing the operator lens is wired differently. It’s not about growth at all costs. It’s about profit, efficiency, and sustainability.
The Visionary vs. the Operator: Two Lenses on Business
Founders think in ideas, momentum, and opportunity. Operators think in systems, process, and leverage. Both are essential—but they operate in totally different worlds.
As a founder, your instinct is to light fires. An operator’s instinct is to prevent them from ever happening. When those two perspectives collide and collaborate, that’s where scale becomes possible.
Lifestyle vs. Exit: Why They're the Same
A lot of founders see lifestyle businesses and exit-focused companies as two different beasts. Jhana argues they’re the same thing.
A company that’s profitable, self-managing, and not reliant on the founder is both a) the most enjoyable to run, and b) the most attractive to a buyer. Whether you want to take Fridays off or sell for 8-figures, the business you need to build looks the same: streamlined, documented, and not dependent on you.
ROI on Time, Energy & Team
You only have so many hours in a day—and your best hours shouldn’t be spent chasing down invoices or answering low-level team questions. Jhana introduces the idea of “ROI on energy,” not just time.
It’s not about working harder. It’s about spending your time on the highest-leverage things only you can do—and letting the rest be handled by systems, team, or AI. It feels slower at first. But in the long run, it’s the only way to move faster.
Using AI to Build Operational Leverage
We talked about AI not as a threat, but as a multiplier. You don’t need AI to replace creativity—you need it to take the grunt work off your plate.
From SOP generation to automating team processes, the best founders will be the ones who combine strategic thinking with AI-driven execution. Jhana’s even launching a fund to back AI implementation agencies—because this isn’t optional anymore. It’s the future of operations.
Why You Should Hire an Operator First (Not Last)
Founders usually wait too long to bring in an operator. They think they need to build the systems first and then hand it off. Jhana flips that.
Your time is too valuable to waste building half-baked systems. A great operator will build the infrastructure for you while you stay focused on what actually grows the business—sales, marketing, content. Pay $5K/month and buy back 50 hours. The ROI is instant.
Systems vs. Scrappiness: Making the Mindset Shift
We’ve all been there—stacking free trials, hacking together tools, and writing SOPs ourselves. That’s fine in the beginning. But once you have the budget, holding on to that scrappy mindset is what keeps you stuck.
Jhana calls it out: you didn’t learn that doing everything yourself makes you successful. You learned to do it because you had no other choice. Once you can afford help, the only reason you don’t get it is mindset—and that mindset is costing you millions.
Closing Thoughts: Build the Business That Doesn’t Need You
Founders chase freedom then build prisons.
This episode is your reminder that if you want freedom, if you want to sell, if you want to enjoy your life—you need to build a business that doesn’t need you. That means hiring the operator, delegating the fires, and letting go of the hero complex.
Your job isn’t to do it all. It’s to make sure it gets done—without you being the one doing it.
Time Stamps
0-15 mins: Jhana and Jason discuss scaling their businesses through operations and efficiency. Jhana talks about how she got into operations after working in a digital agency.
15-30 mins: Jhana explains the difference between the visionary founder mindset and the operator mindset, and how building a business for lifestyle vs. exit are actually the same thing.
30-45 mins: They discuss the importance of the founder focusing on high-value activities and delegating low-value tasks to an operator. Jhana emphasizes the ROI of the founder's time and energy.
45-60 mins: Jhana recommends hiring an operator as the first step in operationalizing a business, rather than trying to build systems yourself. She explains how an operator can create efficiency and profitability.
60-75 mins: They talk about leveraging AI to automate low-value tasks and free up the founder's time. Jhana shares that she's launching a fund to acquire AI implementation agencies.
75-90 mins: Jhana outlines a step-by-step process for operationalizing a business, with hiring an operator as the critical first step. She emphasizes the mindset shift required to scale a business.
Transcript
0:00 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
think that's going to go better.
0:02 - Jhana Li
So we're rolling that out, you'll see a shift in the ads here in the next couple weeks that we're doing more like, you know, ads to follow and then like value add nurture content down the funnel to to leave magnets on the bottom.
0:15 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, yeah, perfect. I think that's the best way to go because it's just like such a, unfortunately, there's like not and about operations at times.
0:24 - Jhana Li
And the no like factor has to be so high, we raise up this. So we're really working with like multi seven figure plus business owners now, and they're investing, you know, 50k plus with us. So it's a different marketing game for that. Yeah, how about you?
0:41 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
How are you? I've been good. We've been good. It's um, had a good couple of months. Things have felt like inflow and easy.
0:48 - Jhana Li
It's like, we've been less focused on, you know, constant acquisition all of the time and more just focused on, you know, product and what we've been doing on the backend and like low and behold, that makes acquisition so much easier.
1:01 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
It's not even about like, people don't even know about the, you know, the product and all the work that we'll be doing. It's more so that people, like when you just have that, I don't really care kind of attitude with it. It's just like flows. It's just weird. You know, they say like the things that you chase are the things that you repel. That's kind of what would happen for a while there. We have like a couple of crappy months where we just like worked too hard and it didn't work. And then we just like sifted it to not work as hard and it works pretty well.
1:31 - Jhana Li
classic, dude. It's like working on the high leverage things, right?
1:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
The things that really create a lot of value for your people. Yeah.
1:38 - Jhana Li
Exactly.
1:38 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
That is the best way to go. So cool. I'm excited for this. what I want to do with like this is that it's less of the, you know, podcast style, like give me a story, stuff like that, like, yeah, going to dive into that just to set a bit of context. But it's more so I want to make it like a little bit more practical and. actionable. So the thing that I do is like I'm taking notes on it as well to kind of like break up a certain topic that you talk about and make kind of training around that as well or like go into like what my thoughts are with it. So it's a little bit more interactive and useful for people that we have and then obviously just like the main recording of podcasts will distribute it everywhere as much as possible but you know really creating lessons and creating something because like business podcasts like there's a million of them.
2:28 - Jhana Li
So it's still extra facing, right? It's not for your intercom community.
2:32 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
yes. Yeah, so it's still external and then like the notes and the takeaways are obviously like internal just so we you know have like a FOMO element to it. Yeah, that's that's the way we like it. I kind of with the way that I interview is it's almost like selfish in a way. Just going to find like that's the easiest way is that like how can I like apply and like I'm not as unique as I think I am there's probably a hundred other people have the same problem.
2:58 - Jhana Li
So might be digging into some of stuff as well if that's cool. Yeah, totally. And remind me who your core audience is and who you want me to be customizing this content for.
3:08 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, it's a good question. Well, the core audience is like just below like it's multi six, multi six is probably the majority of it. We are getting a lot more like seven figure like some multi seven figure companies. But I would probably say it's on the low end of like your typical sophistication all in terms of operations. But agencies or it's all online entrepreneurs. It is agencies and coaches.
3:40 - Jhana Li
Yeah, cool. Sweet. All right. And we'll just run it. I've got a I do have a hard stop at the top of hour.
3:49 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Okay, cool. No stress at all will be done before then. So I do all the intro and all of that stuff that later on. So we'll just kind of get into it. Yeah, make sure. yeah cool all right well I am excited for this like one excited because we haven't spoken in a while and it's been it's been too long like as I said like it looks like I've been out in the wilderness my wife said to me like she's like Jason you've got to like get a haircut and change things all right I'll okay I'll sort myself out um but how you being how how's everything been in the last few months oh no I mean things really have been amazing we've been really really ramping up through honestly a lot of organic content the stuff that you teach but really through like speaking podcasts I'm just out there coaching on operations which is what I love to do and we've seen that really pick things up for us so it's been really fun to go through the growth curve yeah good good all right well I like it and um you know we were just talking is like operations in in general like that's going to be our focus and what we're going to talk about but it is always like the the sexiest thing and the easiest thing to to sell but also not like even the easiest thing to get into like my mind kind of goes off when we started talking operational stuff. So like give us an insight into like how you kind of got involved in this and like how you discover this was your expertise because it's something that not lot of people really focus on.
5:14 - Jhana Li
Yeah, totally. So the too long didn't read version that I was living full time in a van with a guy down by the river. No, I was traveling through North and South America with this guy and he was running a digital marketing agency. And so it's a partner you're trying to answer questions and help out and think through problems together. And what was really interesting to me Jason even in those earliest days is realizing that the things that I was looking at in his business, the problems I saw were totally different than the problems he saw, even though we were looking at the same business. And through a series of odd events, I stepped in to fill in for a team member and like whoopsied my way into becoming that agency's COO. Because what I have learnt since, is that operators have a really different lens than visionary founders, right? You look at your business and you're like, here's how we can improve the products and drive more sales and launch new campaigns and start a new offer. You're looking at upside revenue generation and opportunity. at the same exact business and what we see is gaps in efficiencies, problems, and ways of stacking profit, right? So the visionary founder lens is revenue focused. The operator lens is profit focused. And so I stepped into his business. And again, keep in mind, I didn't even know what operations was. But I'm looking around and I'm like, guys, our merchant processors costing us $50,000 a month. How have you not fixed this already? Our team meetings are wasting a collective of like hundreds of hours every single year. That is expensive. How are our meetings this bad, So same business, different lens. And that is what really sent me down the track of operations. I had the opportunity to work with some really incredible mentors like Hermose, people like this who helped accelerate my learning curve in ops. then I ended up becoming the COO and operations coach in a coaching program that hundreds of business owners pulling back the curtain for me, bringing me their operational problems every day. And that was the really big unlock where I started realizing like, oh, the things that stall startups out as they're trying to grow, the things that trap founders in the weeds, the things that slash profitability, it's the same stuff that I see over and over and and that is that's the body of knowledge that I kind of built up and launched my own company from.
7:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, okay, that's that's interesting. I knew some of the story before but not as not as in depth as that is so like I've got a lot to touch on and like, okay, great, let's dive in.
7:44 - Jhana Li
Because I'm like a visionary side of things and I'm always my focus is like, screw what she has to say, let's just make more, right? just follow the problem.
7:52 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Let's just watch a new offer. That's exactly it. Like, let's just pull that gas onto the fire. In terms of Specifically, the operations, how did you know that that's something that you enjoyed versus because making money, it's obvious why you enjoy it and why you can keep doing it. But how did you be like, oh, well, can look at these problems and solve it? Or is it something you just saw you had a talent for and went into it?
8:19 - Jhana Li
Yeah, more of the latter. And the reality is, I've now worked with hundreds of operators. We actually all see it the same way. It's crazy. What you love and are so good at is marketing, sales, driving, growth driving opportunities. What operators love is cleaning up messes. I had an operator once telling me I'll never forget, they were like, give me the biggest pile of possible because I love being the person that gets to clean it up. It's actually motivating to believe in border to chaos, to identify where things can be better, to help people do better or be more productive in their roles, operators derive fulfillment from this. And so it's wild for a visionary to be like, what you want. want to build my SOPs? It's like, yeah, let me build your SOPs because it's going to make you more money. It's going to make your team better. That's really motivating.
9:09 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Okay, got it. So it's, yeah, it's the path of ending up the stuff because I think ultimately we're all driven in some way. People who say like, I just want to make more impact. I'm like, yeah, if you get paid for that and you get a good feeling when someone, you know, you change someone's life. So I want to understand the motivation behind like operations because sometimes I'm like, oh, it's like, this just, you know, getting, overcomplicating things because that's what a lot of people do. So now that you've gone into your own business and you've been doing that for several years now, so like what's your core focus and what do you guys kind of do?
9:43 - Jhana Li
We'll start there. Yeah, so we work with, you know, like online entrepreneurs generally right around the seven or multi seven figure run rate to start and we're helping them scale through operations. Generally, what we see is like a founder, a visionary founder, has created enormous success for themselves. Again, through sales. through marketing through just like pure hustle and grind and growing this thing. But at some point they reach their limit. I really can't spend any more hours working in this business. My team is underperforming, there's chaos everywhere. And I started this whole thing to have some level of personal freedom to begin with. And now I'm working 60 hour weeks tracked in this company. And that's the stage of growth where we step in, right? the right systems in place that are actually scalable and take the day-to-day chaos out of it and organize your business. Get the right operator, right? Second in command who actually can and should run the day-to-day of your company so that you as a founder can truly elevate out of the weeds and step into that visionary role that you want. This could look like, and it's different for every client. This could like look like helping them scale a lifestyle business. We've helped clients go from like 60 hour work weeks to four hour work weeks, right? That's an outcome. Or it could look like building to sell. So we've helped clients get their operations in order to maximize the valuation of their business so that they're able to sell at the highest multiple. do that very often. This could also look like just helping a founder grow their company as large as it can, but doing it in their zone of genius. So getting them out of all of the stuff, all of the low value, reactive things that they have to do all day, every day, and actually get them back into what they're uniquely good at and where they drive the most amount of growth to the business. So they can scale to 10 million, 20 million, 50 million, whatever their goal is, right? So we essentially start there, we're like, Hey, founder, what's your goal? Where do you want to take this thing and what does success look like? And then we're going to reverse engineer the systems in the team and the operator that you need to make that happen and roll it out inside your business so that you can hit those goals.
11:39 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Beautiful. Okay, I like that. Now, there's actually two things that you mentioned that I want to touch on, and they're kind of like literally different directions is you said lifestyle business, and you said exit, right? I'm like, they're very different. But I actually like that you didn't mention it, because a lot of people, there's this trend, especially over on Twitter is like this, um, solo prenerfing and like asking on Facebook and Instagram. like what the hell is that? And they have scaled businesses like these guys have a couple million dollar businesses, but they're mostly just through personal brand and like linking to low ticket stuff. So solo printer movement is about just being solo and a lifestyle business. But you're saying you can kind of have a lifestyle business with an operator. What does that really work because it sounds like there'll be like management like meetings like how can that be possible?
12:26 - Jhana Li
Yeah, so it's interesting. You draw distinction between lifestyle business and an exitable company. I actually see these things as exactly the same, right? Because let's say that you want to build your company and one day you want to sell it. Does that potential future buyer of your business? What do they want? Do they want a 60 hour a week job that's fueled by your personal brand? Or do they want a four hour a week side hustle that passively generates seven figures in profit, right? The version of your business that allows you to have the most amount of profitability with the least amount. Time of your time invested that version of your company is also the most valuable and sell Version of your business. So if we're gonna build you a lifestyle company We're also building you a high value asset that you can sell if we're building you to scale and sell We're also building a version of your business that is not reliant or dependent on you So it's actually the same. It's just a matter of like what the motivation and why do you want to achieve that outcome? But just like the most healthy sustainable scalable version of your business is also the most sellable those two things happen to just be the same.
13:36 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I Really like that and I recently read the e-myth Revisited. Yeah, right and that talks about they say like the franchise business system essentially So it's not even about like creating a business to sell but it's creating operational procedures and you know Like basically so you can sell it which makes the business or you know better And I'm glad you said that that they're both the same as the lifestyle and the exit because ultimately you don't want to by a job for yourself and for someone else buying the company.
14:03 - Jhana Li
Well, and here's what we see, right? So I literally just got back from that. was speaking at DealCon on like mergers and acquisitions and operations in that space, right? And the mistake that all entrepreneurs make is they're like, cool, I'm just going to like hustling grind. I'm going to build this thing as big as possible. And then I'm going to get so like tired, frustrated, and burnt out by it that at some point I'm just going to sell it. And when you grow that way, you end up being so buried in the weeds of the business. You're so burnt out. You just want to get rid of it that when you go to sell, you're not prepared. You don't have the right operations in place. You don't have the right team in place. The company's fully reliant on you. You can sell that company, but you're going to sell it for a fraction of what it's actually worth. And you are going to lose millions in that sale versus from the very beginning, building it to exit. Even if you planned to hold onto it, building it to exit. Because then you're building a version of your business that has well documented a piece, a high performance and self-managing team, an operator that runs the day to day, it only needs you for like five to 10 hours a week. And then when you're like, cool, I'm wickedly profitable. And I just got an amazing offer on my company. Sure, I'll sell it. Then you get highest valuation, right? So there's so many entrepreneurs that I know who one day want to sell their business, but they make the mistake of saying, cool, that means I need to work 60 hours a week in this thing every single day until I go to sell it. No, actually approaching it from that mindset is going to cost you millions of dollars when you go to sell.
15:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Because you're just like, you're solving a lot of problems with more work. It's something that I actually do a lot is like, my car should be higher for that, should we train you the work of like the training and the operational setup as you're more intensive than just me doing it? then realize you've been doing that for six months when you could have done it once.
15:55 - Jhana Li
Yes, exactly. And you build accidentally, you build a business that is depending your on you, which means that that business now cannot run without you, and that is a less-sellable asset.
16:05 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, 100%. Now, I think that one of the challenges with a lot of people in the visionary side is obviously, not obviously, but they kind of know this, or at least know in concept that they can't just work their way out of it. And so they don't, like, what's the mindset shift, I guess, for someone to go, well, I need to build for the future regardless of what the outcome is, because I think the outcomes are relevant, is how do you shift that? Because for me, again, like I said, it's all just like, work harder to do it. Like, what's the mindset shift to focus on that?
16:38 - Jhana Li
Yeah, and what's tough there is like, also everyone on social media is just telling you to work harder, right? Like, work harder, sell more , you're gonna get there.
16:47 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
And you'll be fine.
16:48 - Jhana Li
And you'll be fine. And the mindset shift, ultimately, in my experience, it comes from some sort of forcing agent. So what I mean by that is that forcing agent could look like having kids. All of a sudden I have kids and now I need to figure out a version of my business that can run with less of my time because I want to spend time with my children. I've burnt out. We get that from our clients a lot and literally just burnt up. I want to burn this company down. don't want it anymore. I hate running it. Okay. You've reached the bottom of the well. Welcome. Now we get to build our way back out, right? So, generally, unfortunately, I can tell everyone on your podcast this information and half of them are still going to wait until they're at the bottom of the well or they have some sort of forcing agent that will force them to figure out a different way to run their business. But my hope that half of your audience is going to hear this and be like, actually, I literally, I just don't need to fall to the bottom of the well to believe that she's right. And there's things that I can do differently in my business today to start working me out of my business today. And I believe that that will get me to a better outcome. That's lifestyle. Exit whatever it is you're seeking. You can change how you run your business effectively. immediately to switch tracks, but it has to come from a choice, right, like the choice looks like tomorrow when your client success manager comes to you with yet another client fire, the choice is how you respond in that moment. Do you say, oh, not again, okay, give it to me, I will fix it? Or do you say, great, this is a teachable moment, time to level up my client success manager so that they can handle their own client fires and they don't have to keep coming into me with this, right. The challenge is that option B takes longer in the short term. It's harder, longer, and more to train somebody to do it than to just do it yourself. But long term, that means you're building a self-managing team. As opposed to what you just said, if you take that ball and you fix the fire, guess what you're still going to be doing six months from now, taking the ball from the fire.
18:48 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, yeah, it is, it is just a difficult one. It's the unicorn syndrome, I think we've talked about before, it's like you're the only person who can do it and like, so you just do it. matter how trivial the task is. maybe. That's, that's interesting. I actually want to type of like, let's continue down this path. like, so the change today, I actually really like the example, because that was a question I just wrote down. It's like, what's the practical thing that you can do? And you just saying train the customer success person rather than jumping in and do it. Like, what are some other practical things to be like, you are now running a business that is exitable, right?
19:25 - Jhana Li
Like, how do you go about right? So I think it comes down to switching one simple belief, right? The simple belief is where we came from, which is all just do it, right? That's, that's the, it's the superpower of entrepreneurs, but it also becomes our greatest weakness. I'll just do it. I'll just figure it out. I'll fix the fire. Nobody can do it as well as I can. It's easier for me to just do it, right? That's the belief that we all come from. That's where we start. Now, if you want to make this shift, the reframe that I will offer you is instead of saying, I'll just do it, it's What would it take for this to happen without me? It's a question. And what it's a problem. How do I figure this out? What's great about entrepreneurs is that we are incredible problem solvers. So you're just presenting yourself with a different set of problems. Instead of the problem being client fire, I'm going to fix it. The problem becomes, what is the combination of systems and team that I need so that this could get fixed without me? And it opens up a totally different realm of questions and opportunities. What systems do I need? What team members do I need in place? What training do they need? How do I need to level up as a leader? How do we need better expectations with our clients? So we don't have as many client fires. All of a sudden, all this new domain enters onto the map of like, wow, if this client fire happened and I wasn't there, what would it take for this to happen without me? And when you start challenging yourself with that set of questions, you will immediately start. taking different actions and working yourself out of the day to day of the business.
21:06 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I love that so much because it's actually really like the timing of this conversation's funny is interesting, the contrast of like the visionary versus the operator. So I today I sent an email about a time several years ago where like I wasn't getting paid by the business but Chris was full time and we didn't have enough to pay him right and he was going to go out to dinner with a girlfriend and we're like we don't have the money to pay him and so what our solution was was the email said is like we asked the questions who the has our money right and that would be our focus and it's funny because we ran into that after that time we ran into that a couple of more times just we weren't smart with money and we weren't making enough really and the solve was who the has my money versus your way of thinking it in operations is like how do we ensure we're saving 10% so this doesn't happen how do we put a buffer away Look at expenses like all of that. And it's just really funny that I sent that email today kind of in contrast to what we're talking about. Totally different. And so operations is just a different way of thinking.
22:11 - Jhana Li
Well, it is fundamentally different. And this is why I recommend that founders partner with operators. I don't mean bring them in that equity. I mean, just hire someone. Because it's, again, it's not your natural lens. The natural lens is sell more , make more money, all just do it myself. And entrepreneurs are so good at that. they should be because it's what drives revenue and growth into the business. It's super valuable. And someone needs to be asking the other half of those questions. What systems do we need? What team do we need? Why did this fire crop up? And how do I build a different process so that that fire never happens again? It's really hard to wear both hats. It's really hard to think both thoughts because they're so different. And so actually the most effective way to do that is to just delegate. the other half of that set that coin out to an operator who's like, I see you incredible idea machine, and here's how we're actually going to execute it so it can happen without you.
23:10 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I love that. I love that. I think that's also the challenge though I think within operations is that they're, when you say separate, like say separate minds, right, the visionary things this way, and I've always looked at operations as restriction. So the avian mindset thing is like, because I just want ideas and like, honestly, I mean, it sounds very like cocky is like, nine out of ten ideas that I have, like, kind of work.
23:35 - Jhana Li
Yeah, so I keep going with that lens rather than like, Oh, I don't want someone restricting me.
23:42 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I guess like, how, what's the shift and how do you go? It's not a restriction. It's a better way of doing things. Like, that's always been my mindset.
23:51 - Jhana Li
And I've seen lot of founders about that as well. Yeah, so I'll offer you a new metaphor for operations, which is in my mind. And this is to be clear, there's a lot of operators who don't this because they don't know any better and they actually do just like create a lot of burden, right?
24:05 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
But that's not what operations is, that's bad operations.
24:08 - Jhana Li
Good operations, I say, is like adding soap to a slip and slide. Operations is there to extract friction so that everything runs smoother. Everything runs cleaner. Everything runs faster. What that looks like, though, is there's a weightlifting, you do weights, right? There's a weightlifting saying, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. So in the short term, it feels slow. Oh, now I have to fill out a form before I didn't fill out form. Now I have to use a system where before I didn't use a system that's slowing me down. I don't like the restriction. But what happens when we fill out the form and use the system is that we save ourselves 10 plus hours on the far end of slack messages that never have to go out because everybody knows what the is going on of meetings that never have to take place of client fires that never happen because balls never get drunk. Awesome. You're actually saving so much time. You are moving so much faster, taking the 30 seconds to fill out the form, right? So slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Your operator's job is to slow things out just enough to smooth everything out. And that's what puts so much slip inside. And all of a sudden everything starts moving faster.
25:21 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I actually love that phrase. It's a common prospect. You don't have to rush through everything all the time. And I find that myself in the ideas that don't work are usually the ones that are just half an hour after thinking them. I think that's a really good reframe for it. It's not restriction. It's removing friction, but it is a little bit slower.
25:43 - Jhana Li
It'll feel slower. The net result to the business is that it is way, way faster.
25:48 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah. And you talked about this earlier is you mentioned a couple of things that you solve. It's like the profit efficiency problems. I think one thing that I do want to touch on is like obviously a big one, but the efficiency side of things is that I think that entrepreneurs, if you're in entrepreneurship for like over two years, your propensity to work hard is like dramatic. It's, you know, people, I was a student athlete and I was an international student. So I had no money, all of this. I'd take 18 credits plus extra credit, work a full-time job and like train five hours a day and then get better grades than all the other people. And I'm like, how you have so much time.
26:28 - Jhana Li
Like, what are you doing with your life?
26:31 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
And that was my example of efficiency. How do you improve efficiency? Like, what are some of the key things? Because I find people are just like going to work harder at it.
26:39 - Jhana Li
Like, what would an operator do? what would you do improve efficiency? Yeah, okay. Gosh, so much. So let me give you one more metaphor and then I'll dive into specifically how this applies to the visionary. I think of business as a bucket. And sales and marketing is the pipe that is piping water aka. money into your bucket, right? Every single bucket has cracks and gaps and holes. Every bucket, there's no perfectly efficient business. But the bigger the bucket, the bigger the business grows, the bigger the cracks, the bigger the holes, the more water is constantly leaking out of this bucket in the form of time, energy, and money, right? So you're focused on the pipe. You're focused on how do I get more water into this bucket all the time? Sales, marketing, sales, marketing, without realizing, without looking at the fact that half of that water is now turning right around and leaking out through wasted time, energy, and money. And so the job of the operator is to look and find the cracks and close them. And that's where we get profit because you're already paying for the water to get into the bucket. These are leads you've already acquired. clients you're already working with. It's revenue you've already generated that is turning right around and leaking out. If you're can close the crack, it doesn't cost you anything to close the gap, to fix the whole. But all of that money stays in the bucket and drops straight to your bottom line in the form of profit, right? So the client who would have churned out and now doesn't, that's free money. That's why that would have left the ecosystem that instead stays in and goes straight to your profitability and straight to your bottom line, right? So that is how operations drives like profit and efficiency are the same thing. The more efficient your business is across time, energy and money, the more profitable it will be because more water is staying in the bucket.
28:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
that make sense? Yeah, 100%. I actually really like that because oftentimes when, you know, in business case studies, like I really like Jim Collins, he writes a lot of like good to great, right? writes those books and you know, sometimes it's really difficult to actually apply anything because when he talks about efficiency, he will talk about how Google provides in-house lunches.
28:54 - Jhana Li
And like what am I to do for that?
28:56 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Like send my free lunch to the Philippines, you know? How could you approve that, but like the practical sense of, you know, businesses in that, you know, multi six, seven figure, even eight range where they're not having, you know, lunch served to people, like, what are the practical efficiencies that they can make? what are the actual areas that they should focus on efficiency first?
29:15 - Jhana Li
Yes. So this is what brings us to the visionary founder, the number one part of your business that you can optimize for efficiency on is yourself. How are you spending your time and your energy? Your time and energy as a founder is the single most valuable resource that your business has, right? You could spend an hour of your time ending a client invoice, answering client FAQs, answering team questions in Slack and putting out fires, or you could spend an hour of your time creating content, generating marketing campaigns and closing drive a low amount of value or a high amount of value into your business. So if we're talking about efficiency gains, The first thing you can do as a founder is look at your own time. Where are you spending your time? Are you spending it on low-value, reactive, day-to-day tasks? Or are you spending it on your business doing the highest value thing, which is driving revenue and setting strategy? So it's interesting, Jason, because this is what this, again, it all is the same in my mind in terms of a lifestyle business versus the most profitable business versus the most sellable business. I genuinely believe a founder will drive more growth to their company by taking an hour away from their business every day and going for a hike and generating once a month in a million-dollar idea. Then they will spend that same hour cleaning up team fires, picking up dropped balls and sending invoices, right? Or a job as a founder is to do the highest level thinking, the highest level strategy, and the highest value and high leverage activities in your business. Marketing, content, sales. any hour that you're not doing those things, you are costing your business money. Any hour that you're spending doing the low value reactive tasks, you are costing your business money. And so if there's one place to look, look at yourself, do a time audit, and then that again, it will start the question of like, cool, I'm spending 25 hours a week doing . What is the system? What is the person? What's the AI agent that I need to get this off my plate? That is what is going to make me money.
31:32 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, I really, really like that. And it's actually one of the first things we do in the modules, that the we teach is like the time audit is one of the most important things. I don't think we're looking at it as to improve as much efficiency as what you're talking about.
31:47 - Jhana Li
I'm looking at it at why playing like an hour of video games, like not saying it's wrong, but like entering the middle of the day or when productive time, like that's kind of that sort of stuff.
31:56 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
your 100% ride is like, I also think that the old, you know, five minute distraction, it takes 10 minutes to kind of like double the amount of time to recover from it. So that quick client fire that you put out, really good. I actually really liked that. And I'd like one of the things that you said is like the hour hike, because the longer you're in business, you realize that this is a freer mindset game, like 90% of it. And so you're kind of, I feel like operators are like usually in the case of like systems, this and that, but the hour hike is something that I wouldn't hear from an operator. And you're like outdoorsy and stuff like that. Like how do you bring more of that? It's not woo, I guess, but more so of like the enjoying life to make a better business.
32:40 - Jhana Li
Yeah, 100%. But this is what we talked about time, right? ROI on time. This is where we get into ROI on energy. What's a higher value version of me? Where am I going to drive more growth to my business? If I spend 60 hours a week, burned out doing things that I hate that drain the life out of me, that I'm not that good at and that I just have to like muscle through or if I take every single weekend to go skiing and backpacking and white water rafting and absolutely loving my life and oh by the way having some really good creative innovative ideas about my business because that's where I do my best thinking and then I get to bring that back to my company on Monday and we go which version of that of me is higher ROI on my energy because version one is also the version of me where I'm going to grind on this for five years burn out and then shut this business down or sell it for pennies versus the version of me that's going to stay in this business for as long as it takes for me to exit at maximum valuation because I'm loving every second of it ROI on energy guys how are you spending your energy are you doing the things that drain you or the things that let you up because I promise you the things that let you up will make you more money and again you have to then build a version of your business that will let you take an hour long hike every day. Without crumbling and failing a version of your business that lets you take three-day weekends a version of your business that for me Let me take three weeks to grab the Grand Canyon and be totally out of service and unavailable to my team That version of my business is more scalable more profitable better high-performance self-managing team more sellable asset then And I grab the Grand Canyon. So why wouldn't I build that? I Love it.
34:28 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I love it so much is I think it's it's super practical as well And sometimes it's like difficult as the visionary sound founder who always wants to drive sales marketing could literally work all the time because they enjoy it, but the thing is it's like You got to enjoy it like live while you're building this thing as well.
34:44 - Jhana Li
Yeah, I mean again Why did you start this business? This is all the time I started this business for freedom freedom I'm going to sacrifice all of my freedom and at some point somehow a magic switch will flip and I will be free Yeah, not how it works The mindset that buries you in your business 60 hours a week right now will only become eight hours a week at scale because you're building a version of your business that's fundamentally dependent on you doesn't just magically go away. You have to build the version of your business that can run without you do that today and start experiencing more and more freedom today and then you will end up at freedom but it's like it makes perfect sense right like in what world. Would building a version of my company that needs me 80 hours a week somehow make me free. Yeah, what is the magic switch that gets flipped two years from now we're certainly that goes away. It's not how it works.
35:39 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, then it gets worse.
35:41 - Jhana Li
It only gets worse. I love that so much.
35:44 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
It's the time and energy of just so it's so important and I someone made a post recently that I really resonated with is that when you start to hear someone who isn't really into the mindset stuff say I know. This sounds a bit woo woo.
35:58 - Jhana Li
It means they're on the right path because.
36:00 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
things woo-woo, right? Like, let's be real, like, time energy, like, what are we talking about here?
36:04 - Jhana Li
Right.
36:05 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
But it is the actual, like, they're on the right path because the energy is super important, and someone said, like, you need to treat yourself like a million dollar racehorse to make the million dollar Like, everything for you, you are the driver of this.
36:18 - Jhana Li
And it's cool how you've linked both to, like, operations can support the million dollar racehorse and perform it, right? I've built the time audit out so that I can literally just pull it back to dollars and cents, right? I can tell a founder, here's how 10 hours a week spent on these things is actually costing your business exactly 300, or like 3.5 million dollars a year, right? That's a client that I just did this exercise for. So is it woo-woo? Not really. Not we can drill down to what the actual value of your time looks like. If you need to be convinced that your time is valuable, hit me up. I will send you the exercise and you can calculate. exactly how many millions of dollars you are leaving on the table right now because you're buried in the weeds of your business.
37:06 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, it makes makes a ton of sense and I love that. I want to switch gears a little bit and something that I'll probably bring up to a lot of different people because it's a one, it's a concern and then it's also something that it can be a powerful tool and something we can leverage and you mentioned it is like the AI agent to do stuff is in operations like how is that something that you're using or you're going to use to improve efficiency or is it something you kind of like worried about?
37:35 - Jhana Li
Yeah, it's a great question. I am jumping straight into this. I'm actually, I didn't mention this to you Jason, I'm launching a fund. So I'm partnering up with a guy Brian Burr, another agency owner and we're going to actually be acquiring AI implementation and integration agencies. if anybody's listening, let me know. Because AI, again, what's the job of operations? Create profitability. AI is the single most powerful tool to create efficiency and profitability. think there is still a place, at least in the short term, there's still a role for human beings on your team. I'm not advocating for firing everybody and replacing them with AI. What I'm advocating for is take all the low value stuff that's taking up your time. It's also taking up their time and we can use AI to get our team out of all of the low value tasks, the manual tasks, the repetitive tasks that need to happen across the business and up level our team. So now everyone in our business is being paid to be their most strategic, most creative, most innovative, backed by AI tools that help with the execution of it. So AI is happening, guys. This is the way the world is moving. The agency space is going to be fundamentally transformed by this. You have the opportunity to be on the cutting edge of the wave or to get sucked underneath it. The choice is how you and your team. currently looking at AI and rolling it out within the company.
39:03 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, I'm a big believer in that as well. I'm deep into that AI space is that I think one of the challenges that people are worried about with it is the fact that they're like, oh, it's going to replace.
39:14 - Jhana Li
And look, there's some things that it probably will replace, like we've got to be real about it.
39:18 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
But ultimately, if you know how to use it, it gives you like, so I look at it this way, it's like, my skill set is limited in terms of what I can do in a business. I think everyone's is and you have to be great. And then what AI can do is it, I can use all of its capabilities, but with my knowledge pass it on. So I'm like, sales and marketing, I know that, hey, build me a really great funnel that has this element, this element, and then they can do that. And so about leveraging it to improve your own skills essentially, too.
39:48 - Jhana Li
We were just talking about value of time, right? So let's say that you need to build a funnel for a client. No, all steps to that process are equally valuable. The most valuable part of that process is having the marketing skills. builds in the strategic knowledge of saying, what should this funnel, how should we format it, what's the copy, what's the angle, like strategically, what is it going to take to make this funnel perform as well as possible? What is way lower value is actually designing the funnel, writing the copy, adding the photos, doing everything else, right? So that's the part that AI is taking off your plate. You're still of contribution, and you're doing the most valuable part of the process, which is the thinking. And then you're directing the AI to do the doing, that is pure profit, that's pure efficiency and profitability gain.
40:34 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, perfect. I love that. That's the exact way that I always look at it. It's just, you know, taking away the crap. Like, I love the tweets that one made, is they're like, oh, I want AI to like do my laundry and wash the dishes, not like take away my creativity. And I think that like, people get it wrong as they think that that's what AI is, is it's like taking that stuff away.
40:54 - Jhana Li
I think it's only enhancing it. It supercharges your cake.
40:57 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah. Okay, good. I can talk about the AI stuff.
41:00 - Jhana Li
all day. But let's get back into more of the operational stuff.
41:03 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
So fundamentally, is that I think that I want to get like a bit more actionable here is what are the things like, what are the kind of sequences that people need to take to like operationalize their business essentially? Because I think we talked about like SOPs and implementing that before, but like, what's the kind of steps like the first thing that you should do and then, you know, progress from that?
41:25 - Jhana Li
Totally. So knowing your audience, Jason, right? Anybody who's doing high multi six figures, low multi seven figures or seven figures, the first step is higher in operator. I literally believe this, right? The first step is higher in operator.
41:41 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
The second step is let them do everything else. Okay. So that is interesting. It's that I've always had that the other way around is I'm like systemize and then bring someone into operate onto the systems, but you're a believer that that person should come first.
41:57 - Jhana Li
What is it? Let me tell you what, so. Again, what version of your business is going to perform better, the version of the business where the visionary founder who has an incredibly high value skill set takes time away from marketing and sales to figure out how to build out click up, which they hate doing, drains the life out of them, takes way too long as they procrastinate it, and then they end up with a click up because they're not that good at it, and all of that time could have been spent doing marketing and sales and isn't. That version of your business or the version of your business where you go out and hire somebody for 5k a month who comes in with all the batteries included knowledge of exactly what that click up needs to look like, loves the process of meeting with your team, building it out, getting those SOPs in place, getting everything dialed, and saves you 50 hours that now get spent on marketing and sales driving, I would hope, more than 50k if you had 50 hours or like 5k a month, right, if you had that same amount of time spent on marketing and sales and instead you just pay for it by getting this operator to do it instead. And then they run click up, they optimize it and evolve it over time, they make sure that your team is actually using it, make sure that it actually works, and you never have to think about it again. Which version of that business is going to make you more money?
43:13 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
That's why. Obvious. I love that way. I like the framing of it as well because it's something that it's kind of going, it is going back to that like, you know, time and energy is that it's, it's not like when we talked about this, kind of all comes into play as like time, energy, and then like efficiency with that time and energy as well. Like me writing an SOP might take like 20, 30 minutes, and it's probably like dog comparison. So like what an operator could do.
43:39 - Jhana Li
So you would blow it out and then you have to put your team on it, and then you have to make sure that they actually use it, and then you have to update it when it has to be updated. It's not just the SOP, right?
43:48 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
It's everything that comes with managing your own operations.
43:53 - Jhana Li
Someone's got to do it. Someone's got to run the day to day. Someone's got to deal with the fires. Someone's got to fix the systems when they break. If it's not an operator, it will be you. But the thing is, is that your time will drive more value to your business. If it is spent doing the things that let you up, make the most amount of money and the highest value in through the door, more revenue through the door. It is your operator's job to then create a machine where all of that water doesn't just leak out of the bucket.
44:21 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, really. Yeah, I think that's a better way to go. And like the longer I'm in business, we used to bootstrap things.
44:28 - Jhana Li
I've told people to this story all the time. it's like, we have like six emails to get free trials of softwares over and over.
44:34 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
we could, you know.
44:35 - Jhana Li
Totally.
44:36 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
And that's just like the mindset. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are the same. But then eventually you've got to get into the face of like, that 5K is, if there's nothing in the long, in the scheme of things compared to what would produce.
44:49 - Jhana Li
Let me give you a thought experiment, honest, right? If you were venture backed, if somebody popped up in your email and said, hey, want to give you a million dollars tomorrow to run your business, we'd still be building your own system. comes. We go out and hire a world-class COO. We bootstrap. We're scrappy. We do everything ourselves at the beginning because we have no choice. Not because it's the right way to grow our business, but because we literally don't have the budget to do anything else. But when you unlock the budget, why hold on to the mindset when in fact now I actually have the budget, I could go out and hire. I taught myself the wrong lesson. The lesson I learned was if I do everything myself, I will be successful. That's what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. No. The lesson was I have to do everything myself because I can't not to. But the second I can afford not to, I should, so that I can use my time more and more valiantly.
45:49 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
So good. So good. It's an important lesson I think for everyone to hear. Regardless of operations or anything, just in general in business, is that you've got to remove that mindset.
45:59 - Jhana Li
You're not back against the world. Yeah. 100%. What it takes to start a business and what it takes to scale a business are generally direct opposites. What it takes to start a business is work really hard, put in the 80-hour weeks to start a business yourself. What it takes to scale a business is figure out how to get yourself out of the weeds, learn to lead, delegate, and operationalize so things can run without you. It's a complete 180, which lies so many CEOs that start businesses statistically do not end up scaling them. It's just a different skill set. It's a different mindset. It's a different way to play the game.
46:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah. I mean, you could argue, well, I'm not even arguing, it's probably mostly true. It's like CE over, it's like C-O, the operations is like the vital part of the growth, because otherwise you just stuck. mean, the best example, I don't know if you ever watched it on, I forget what it's on, but it's actually on Netflix is the super pumped. It's a documentary on Uber. Yeah, Travis Kalanek, and so he was the founder or co-founder of it, and it's it's the acting's phenomenal. The storyline's really good. it just showed how he was a founder constantly trying to grow like a founder would do where they made up code to hide stuff from Apple so that they could track people's phones even when they weren't like around. that stuff is stuff you do scrappy. And like if he had a good operations person, which they thought they did, but the operations person was the same, didn't work. I think that that's just like the exact thing that I think of is that Travis Collins kicked out and he asked the Right. Right. Whereas, you know, if you had the round operations person.
47:36 - Jhana Li
Yeah, 100%. Right. And again, I get it, Jason, because in the short term, what it's perceived at is why are you slowing me down? Why are you shutting down my ideas? Why do I have to go out and pay for somebody that I could do something myself? Short term, it doesn't make any sense. Keep going, work harder, throw in another hour, build a system yourself, you can do it, right? Short term, that's always worked for you. Why wouldn't it continue to work for you? If you're not starting a business anymore, you're scaling it. And the biggest we have to help our CEOs level up is themselves. Until you acquire a CEO mindset, you're just a founder who calls themselves a CEO but actually works 80 hours, has an 80 hour a week job. Yeah.
48:20 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
That is the perfect way to summarize this. I love it. I love it.
48:26 - Jhana Li
much. just, yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. think this was fantastic.
48:30 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I always come in, like, I have a list of questions and I think I asked like three of them just because I wanted to call it different directions with this and I love it.
ACTION ITEM: Add Jhana's Instagram link (@thejhanali) to podcast show notes - WATCH: https://fathom.video/share/QmcDUyUdxynuxZChUgvFTyWjsEsxzPpz?timestamp=2918.9999 So for you, like, where's the best place? People contact you or like, I'll add all the links and stuff like that. But is there any like resource or anything that you can kind of share for people listening?
48:49 - Jhana Li
100%. What I'm happy to share with everyone, guys, and you go to my Instagram at the John Lee. That's T-H-E-J-H-A-N-A-L-I. Go ahead. should be a DM. Let me know that you
49:00 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
came from DM codered Fox so I know who you came from and I will shoot you over a free copy of my operations ebook it's essentially a guide for how to build out the right operations within your business and where identifying where exactly time energy and money is currently leaking out of your bucket so that you can identify the cracks for you you can get started closing them immediately get some profitability and then yes go out hire that operator and let them take you to the next level so yeah DM me the codered Fox I'll know where you came from and I'll hook you up with that free resource beautiful I'll put the link for that below as well that is perfect again thank you so much for you know doing this I appreciate it and it was good catching up with you and we'll have you again soon likewise talk soon see you everyone cool just say about it a bit of time by stopping the recording oh that was excellent thank you so much conversation I freaking love it mr yeah I yeah I think like approaching kind of interviews like that where it's just like flowing and trying to kind of you know, embrace your curiosity. I think Joe Rogan does a good job of that.
50:03 - Jhana Li
know, he's I was an alien, so he brings on people about aliens. Like, I don't listen to him. Yeah, that stuff. Yeah, that was it. How is everything going?
50:12 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Anything I can sport you with? I'm going good. Yeah, we're blowing pretty well at the moment. That's a good question. No, I think that, like, we're in, like, Chris is doing, like, kind of in the operations role. think, like, that's where we need to probably push a little bit more is that making it, it's kind of funny because I'm the visionary, but Chris is more of, like, the operation implementation and stuff like that. But we're both, like, technically the founders. So it's a case of, like, a lot of the ideas I have, he'll go, yes, because he's probably still in that mindset of, like, what you said.
50:53 - Jhana Li
I actually think I'll give him this to listen to, to, like, think through how we should be looking. to me.
51:00 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
If I'm probably just having a free call with him, whatever, yeah, no, 100% because it's what we need to do is that that's definitely like, I mean, we're not working like 80 hours a week or anything, but like we're working enough and there should be more coming out of that. And I just think that like the ship in line says ROI on time and energy.
51:23 - Jhana Li
And again, like my first vendor was Layla Hermosey, right? Her and Alex are co-founders, right? But they recognize that they each have a unique zone of genius, and then they work together in a complementary way to each bring their best to the table. Chris can call himself, CEO wants to, right? But it's not about the title.
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51:40 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
It's not about the equity split. It's about how do we each bring unique value to the company? Yeah, I love it. I love it. Cool. Thank you very much. I appreciate this.
51:50 - Jhana Li
I will tag you and I'll send you all of the stuff we added. If you don't mind as well, I've got a content team on my time.
51:57 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
We're really ramping things up so we can do our own clips. So much gold there. I like to quite certain points. I just see like for you, especially as the more conversations you can have like this and the more people that see it, it's like your offer becomes a no-brainer. Because it's such a non-problem aware author, people don't know it's a problem because working harder can solve it. that's temporary.
52:22 - Jhana Li
Yeah, and on my end, would be the biggest thing is like if there's other podcast hosts or shows that you know about other communities or other stages that you're connected with, any intros would be super valuable.
52:34 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
That's what I'm most focused on. 100%. So I'm actually like I've got a quote unquote CRM for that and I'm like building it out with doing this. So 100%. And I think that like the one thing for me is like recommendations always tough, but I always recommend you because you're the only person in that space who has the great knowledge about it on pretenders, but like I'm not really talking about them.
52:58 - Jhana Li
No, I appreciate you. Seriously. Having the time to me.
53:01 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Of course, of course. Well, thank you very much. I'll send you all this stuff You need anything.
53:05 - Jhana Li
Let me know but again. Yeah, thank you and yeah, that's all I can stay in contact We shouldn't wait And one final thought that's just barking for me. It's like something we we get a lot of value from in partnerships It's like I have a ton of operational content that is built out for more that six figure audience member And it's just it's ready to go. just an evergreen kind of coaching curriculum So we have ways of like embedding that inside of like if there's curriculum that you want out of my stuff That would be value adds to your people.
ACTION ITEM: Review Jhana's course content, identify sections to potentially embed in own curriculum - WATCH: https://fathom.video/share/QmcDUyUdxynuxZChUgvFTyWjsEsxzPpz?timestamp=3204.9999
53:35 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
I can just hook you up with it for free And then that for me is just like long-term lead nurture. Oh, that's so good to hear I know you've got to go over a couple minutes. That's exactly like what we what we want of like eventually right So it's just because we're working this like the podcast is ultimately to get more traffic to sell something That's more of a membership. That's a lower ticket sort of self-content providing and where the we get so many more members than any of our higher ticket stuff. So having you like, and then it just fills a gap operations, here you go, I've watched this course, and you know, we can track like how they get to you and stuff like I'm not worried about that content.
ACTION ITEM: Have EA (Hector) send Jason login access for 7-figure ops 101 & operator hiring funnel courses - WATCH: https://fathom.video/share/QmcDUyUdxynuxZChUgvFTyWjsEsxzPpz?timestamp=3242.9999 Yeah, that would be game changing.
54:13 - Jhana Li
Let me all have my EA hook you up with the login. There's two courses, one is just like kind of seven figure ops 101, right? Like the operational basics that you need to scale to seven figures. The other is a deep dive into our operator hiring funnel. And I just give that away, because again, if people want to done for you, they'll just work with us. And so all have Hector, that's my idea. I'll have him just hook you up with logins. You can get in there and take a look at the curricula and any piece of that that you want. Let me know. And we'll just figure out how to embed it, do a bit of a live launch to your people. And yeah, start generating traffic through that.
54:49 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Perfect. I love it. I love it. Cool. when that we're goal is to get this to a thousand users at the end of the year, we're on track and we're moving in the right direction. So I would like to do this again when do have more like users and proof in the built out so we can push more of that for you as well but I think this will crash anyway.
55:07 - Jhana Li
That's great. That's great. Okay, cool. I'll send this to you and then we can circle back around to it in what like six months something like that?
55:14 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Yeah, yeah.
55:16 - Jhana Li
Cool. Gorgeous.
55:18 - Jason C Fox (jcfmedia.com.au)
Good to see you Jason. You too.
55:20 - Jhana Li
Have a good